From Northumbria with love

No, it wasn’t the first time. A few years ago I did some work regarding legal highs and Capital Radio contacted me. They’d also been collecting some of the drugs available and wanted me to do an analysis of the ones they had versus the ones I’d been studying. That was the first thing I ever did for the media and after that, I did get a few more requests but to be honest, I didn't really have the confidence to do it at the time.

What gave you that confidence this time?

After the legal highs work, my university press office had got in touch with me because some things had come up about nitrous oxide, but I told them I had a face for radio and that I didn't want to do it. I said, ‘if you give me training, I'll do it’, thinking that they never would, but that backfired on me a bit because they called my bluff!

An external journalist called Neil McNeil came in to the university and trained four of us to do radio and TV interviews and it was brilliant.

So I did the training and then the nerve agent story came up. A friend was called for an interview with BBC Radio Newcastle – he was talking about the espionage side of things – and they asked him about the toxicology and he said ‘I can put you in touch with somebody’, and it just went from there.

How did you feel about that first interview?

It was quite exciting because you know the chemistry but you have to work out how to explain it to people who don’t necessarily have a scientific background, while still getting across exactly what you want to say – it was interesting. By the time I'd come back from doing the BBC phone call, people had contacted the university and wanted to do TV interviews and so that was essentially the whole day. It was International Women's Day – which I thought was quite apt. It was a good day to be a woman in science. Obviously it was sad in a way because these people are really ill, but I was given the opportunity to be the expert that was talking about the toxicology. The more I did it, the more confident I became about it.

I ended up doing interviews for a lot of different outlets: radio, TV, print news. I even did an over the phone interview in French – that was a good day. They started talking to me in English and then I said ‘oh, I can speak some French’ and then that was it! That really gave my confidence a boost.

That’s fantastic! Where did you learn to speak French?

After my Masters in forensic science, I moved to Paris to work in the toxicology department of the criminal research institute for the National Gendarmerie – one of the national police forces in France. 

I could speak a bit of French before but it was useless to me. It was things like 'where's the Notre Dame' or 'I'd like to order chicken and chips please'. It didn't set me up for being able to discuss chemistry in French. At that point, the internet wasn't really a big thing and the websites you could access were limited because it was a military organisation. The hardest part was reading manuals for an LC-MS in French and trying to figure out what the English equivalent for the French was. I would also point at a vial or a cap, and I would ask in French 'what is this in French?' That was funny – challenging but funny. I still have collaborations with the people that I worked with so I’m able to keep the language up.

What were some of the challenges of being interviewed? How did you cope with any questions about the political implications of the case?

Working in forensic science there’s a very similar rule of you don't comment on anything outside of your expertise. I was quite adamant in the interviews that I wasn't there as a politician. I was a scientist and that's what I was there to discuss. Obviously they did push me for more: ‘Was it Russia? But was it Russia? But is there any way to link it back to Russia?’… The media training was really helpful because it was a journalist who did the training and he explained a journalist just wanted a good story and they want you to say the line that is going to make their article. When you think about it from what they are looking for, you realised why they were asking the questions they were asking.

Most people would send you over the questions before you had to go on TV and they would want the answers so that they had an idea of what you were going to say. If I genuinely said, ‘look I'm not a medical doctor...’ they just knocked that question out, so they were very good.

The biggest challenge was actually talking to somebody that you couldn't see. You can hear the person's voice but can't see them and you've got to keep looking at the camera.

How did you feel seeing yourself featured on all of these different news stories?

It was horrible that the people were sick and it’s good to see they’ve made a recovery, but for me, the fact that they were featuring a female toxicologist was a positive thing for science. I was the only woman toxicologist that they had on TV. When I was younger and at university, it was all men that taught. If we want people to get in to science we need to show them that it’s not just old men with white hair and white coats, who’ve gone into science to come up with the next Frankenstein and play with a bunch of chemicals. I think it's good that people see scientists and see that they're relatively normal people. I know we're all a wee bit nerdy, I'm prepared to admit that, but there's nothing wrong with being a bit nerdy. We should embrace it: nerd is good!

My parents and all my friends have been really supportive because I come from a small place, called Shotts in the Central belt of Scotland. They’re really proud that it's someone from their small town and the only woman expert that's been featured on things about the poisoning case.

Why do you think it’s important for scientists to engage with the media on these sort of stories?

You need people to explain science accessibly. Sometimes scientists are too eager to overcomplicate it and the public gets overwhelmed with all of this information. That, to me, is not what science is about. Our daily life would be very difficult if we didn't have chemistry. Everything from your mobile phone, to the clothes that you wear – we wouldn't have them if we didn't have chemistry. Chemistry is amazing. If you're a good communicator and you can explain the science to somebody without getting too technical, then that's a good thing. I think it's part of our responsibility as scientists to be able to explain what we do and be a voice for science so that people can understand it and not get scared off by scientists and think they're just using big words to confuse them.”

Is this something you would be prepared to do again and encourage other scientists to engage with?

Definitely – I really enjoyed it. Ruth in our media office has been brilliant, because obviously I didn't know anything about any of the technology they were using. She was really good and still is, because this story's still going on. I’m now on the Science Media Centre’s contact list – they gather quotes and expertise from scientists to respond to queries from journalists. As I said, I think it’s part of our responsibility as scientists.

What do you enjoy most about your job?

For me, there's no other job that would give me the freedoms that I have. Somebody pays me to talk about chemistry. That is epic for me. I can do the research I like as long as I can find the money and it's ethically approved etc. You get to engage in conferences, you get to learn new things from your colleagues and the students, you get to be involved in collaborations, you get to do a bit of public engagement… And the fact that somebody recognises that you know what you're talking about by phoning you up and saying can you talk about this on TV? Especially if they phone you back and ask you to do it again – you think, ‘well I can't have done a bad job then’. For me, there's no other job where I could do all of these things. I’m not saying there aren’t bad days but it’s the good days that make it worth it.

What do you do outside of your work at Northumbria?

I’m on the committee of the RSC’s North East Region Analytical Division. We do things like the Schools Analyst Competition. I've given lectures and presentations on the history of analytical chemistry, with respect to poisonings and forensic analysis at group meetings.

I've done quite a few public engagement things over the years, like the British Science Festival. We have a place called the Centre for Life in Newcastle, so I've done lectures on toxicology for them.

It's good because it gets you out of your normal space but also you get to think about how to explain things to people who are not scientists but who are generally interested.

You’re a Chartered Chemist – what made you decide to apply and work towards CChem?

I think it was because I came from industry where it was a big thing to be chartered. At the time I didn't think I had enough experience but when I looked at it, there were plenty of things that I was doing that would be good for CChem. I found a mentor, Prof Jenny Ames, who was one of the only female professors that we had at the time and she was a Chartered Chemist. She mentored me for the two years. I enjoyed it because I was already doing a lot of the things, like public engagement, and because I had done my PhD part time while I was working, I was showing that I was engaging with chemistry and I was advancing my knowledge. It was an official stamp to say that the stuff I was doing was good and was valued.

Especially when it relates to some of the consultancy work I do, people will phone having just seen my qualifications and say "oh and you've got Chartered Chemist" and that seems to be good thing a lot of the time. I’d definitely encourage others to look at the process of CChem.